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Date: 14 Aug 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Yorubas and Egyptians
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References: <399823C1.49DE@luckymojo.com>
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Subject: Re: Yorubas and Egyptians
>From: catherine yronwode cat@luckymojo.com
>Date: 8/14/00 11:46 AM EST
>Message-id: <399823C1.49DE@luckymojo.com>
>
>Sfrthomas wrote:
>>
>> >eballard@sas.upenn.edu (E. C. Ballard) wrote:
>
>> > Go read a dozen or so major volumes on African linguistics printed
>> > since the 1930s and you will find a fair bit that disagrees with the
>> > antiquarian notions of Olumide. The view he espoused came out of the
>> > very European notion that if one encountered any worthwhile cultural
>> > activity in subsaharan Africa it had to have its roots in the
>> > Mediterrean area. At the least it had to be Egyptian. remember, at
>> > that time most viewed Egyptians as at the least Semi-Semetic and not
>> > really African. This was another attempt to credit non African
>> > origins to African culture.
>>
>> The *fact* though remains whatever it is. In my approach to things,
>> you first face facts, and then let the chips fall where they may. The
>> ancient Egyptians were in any case a black African people, so a
>> European agenda seeking to ascribe non-Black origins to Yoruba
>> achievements would simply have ended up with egg on its face. I think
>> Lucas' agenda was in any case different, since I think he perceived
>> very clearly that the ancient Egyptians were a black people, evident
>> already in the name, km.t, that they gave to themselves. which
>> literally means black country.
>
>Could either of you give me some DATES when these theories were first
>published (by Olumide and Lucas)?
Here are some citations that would address your question, and also Eoghan's
request for sources:
J. Olumide Lucas, "The religion of the Yorubas", first published 1948,
republished by Athelia Henrietta Press, Brooklyn, NY, 1996. (see p. 349 for
sources which speak of Yoruba migration from the Nile Valley. As I said, the
linguistic evidence is corroborative.)
Cheikh Anta Diop, "Precolonial Black Africa", English translation by Lawrence
Hill Books, 1987 (original French publication date not given). See p. 216 for
the Nile valley origins of the Yoruba. He cites Lucas, but also speaks of Nile
Valley origins of the Ashanti, the Wolof, the Zulu, and other West, Central,
and Southern African peoples.
Chancellor Williams, "The destruction of Black Civilization", Third Wordl
Press, 1987. He also speaks of internal migrations within Africa caused by
invasions into the Nile Valley from the North and East. He speaks of the "trail
of bones" from the North-East to the West and South. Don't have time to check
and give page citations.
Cheikh Anta Diop, "The African Origin of Civilization", first published 1955,
in French; republished in English translation (Mercer Cook) by Lawrence Hill
Books, 1974. Restates arguments made by Lucas.
Robert K. G. Temple, "The Sirius Mystery". This book attempts to show Egytian
origins of the Dogon, a West African people who have known of the existence of
Sirius B for at least hundreds of years. This is a dwarf star, invisible to the
naked eye, which is companion to Sirius. Western science has known of its
existence only since the 1970s, and had suspicions of its existence only since
early 20th century. Temple sought to find non-African origins to these black
African people, and thought his job was done when he traced them back to the
Nile valley. Only trouble is, the ancient Egyptians were black African. For
which, see
Herodotus, "The histories". Book two particularly.
See also Diop's "African Origin of Civilization", already cited; and
Martin Bernal, "Black Athena".
Finally, on the linguistic question as to whether the similarities between
ancient Egyptian and various black African languages is coincidental or
genetic, see
Theophile Obenga, "Genetic linguistic connections of ancient Egypt and the rest
of Africa", in Molefi Kete Asante and Abu S. Abarry, editors, "African
Intellectural Heritage: a Book of Sources", Temple University Press, 1996; p.
262
That should give you plenty to work with.
>
>cat yronwode
>
Peace,
Grisso
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