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Date: 20 Aug 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Subject: Re: African Astrology
Message-ID: <20000820162830.07991.00000500@ng-ft1.aol.com>
References: <39A01D28.8696967C@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha
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Subject:  Re: African Astrology
>From: trace bunker tbunker@falcon.cc.ukans.edu 
>Date: 8/20/00 1:02 PM EST
>Message-id: <39A01D28.8696967C@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
>
>
>
>Sfrthomas wrote:
>> 
Subject: ct: Re: African Astrology
>> >From: Denise Oliver-Velez deoliver@pipeline.com
>> >Date: 8/18/00 12:05 PM EST
>> >Message-id: 
>
>> >Saturn (ruler Capricorn) - Ogun
>> 
>> Not by a long shot in my opinion. Ogun is more Martial than Saturnine.
>Obaluaye
>> is the more likely correspondence for Saturn I would have thought.
>> 
>
>Alafia Grisso, Denise and list,
>Ok, I am not an astrologer by any stretch, but my aunt is, and she
>partially raised me, so I absorbed a lot of random information. To me,
>the association of Ogun with Capricorn makes perfect sense, because
>Saturn is all about restriction , *hard work*, solitude and even
>depression. 

These are saturnine qualities, not martial. So I guess the issue for you is
that you associate these qualities with Ogun. What has to be conclusive in the
discussion is that Ogun is the god of war, of the hunt, of iron. That would
line him up very directly with Mars. The "hard work" that one would associate
with Mars/Ogun is of a different quality than that associated with Saturn. The
hard work of Mars is that of the trail-blazer, the entrepreneur, the athlete,
the warrior. It is a hot and dry energy that is not typically sustained or
protracted. That's why the entrepreneur that builds an enterprise is not often
usually the one that can run it in its mature phase. He has to move on to other
challenges. Saturn, on the other hand, is capable of deep, sustained thought,
and the hard work of planning, as distinct from implementation, which is the
more martial endeavor.

>Also, Capricorn is an earth sign, and iron is mined from
>within the earth. 

Correction. Iron *ore* is mined from the earth. As compared with the other
common metals, it takes a very hot furnace to smelt iron. And the essential
qualities of iron that cause it to be associated with the god of war are
strength, and hardness. It cuts real good. These qualities (strength and
hardness) carry over to machinery in general, and by extension to technology. A
favorite location for finding items for Ogun is along a railway line. By
contrast, the metal associated with Saturn is lead. Lead has an association
with death: from lead bullets, to lead caskets, to lead poisoning. Obaluaye
also has an association with death, and with cold, slow, long-term processes,
usually inner- rather than outer-directed. One of his totems is the skull, or
old bones generally.

>I never understood putting Obaluaye in Capricorn. My
>understanding is that we do this because of the Catholic feast day for
>San Lazaro. As a member of an ile that does not practice Catholicism,
>this has very little meaning for me. 

I am not much up on the syncretizations coming out of the Santeria tradition
either. However, San Lazaro brings to mind Lazarus, who is most famous for
having risen from...  the dead!

>However, as a daughter of Ogun
>*and* a Capricorn, I feel that associating Ogun with Capricorn is right
>on track. 

Well, your sun sign may be Capricorn, but maybe your moon (emotional nature) is
in Aries? In any case, astrology is certainly not so simple that your sun sign
alone tells all that you need to know. 

>I should add that I am not sure I really even believe in
>astrology. Some days I do, some days I don't. 

I believe in it. But I also believe that it's too complicated to be much use to
most people most of the time... it takes a really skilled practitioner to
divine with it. (Yes, that's what it is, a system of divination).

>
>Peace,
>Trace
>

Peace,
Grisso



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