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Subject: Re: Arguments
Date: 16 Nov 2000 00:00:00 GMT
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On Sun, 12 Nov 2000, Mamaissii wrote:
> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:36:26 GMT
> From: Mamaissii
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha
Subject: : Re: Arguments
>
> Greeting to you Grisso:
>
> I want to thank you for your words. If I could speak as you do, and
> play music like Coltrane, I would leave the earth happy.
That's high praise indeed, and I thank you, although I'm not sure it's
deserved. I'm a decent writer. I certainly work at it. But for me it's
like sweating blood sometimes, nothing as effortless as Coltrane.
> On another note, I have traveled and lived many places in this world.
> I have traveled many times to Africa, and worked in the House of my
> lineage. Without exception, white men have the hardest time accepting
> that they have no real power in this religion. American men, more than
> German, French or other Europeans who tend to at least conduct
> themselves more respectfully before us.
>
> In a country (USA) where we (Black women) remain invisible, "powerless"
> and cruelly stereotyped, many forget that it is our vessel that gives
> birth to the Spirit since the beginning of time. The faces of our
> goddesses and priesthoods throughout antiquity have either been
> forgotten or europeanized. Many in this country have been conditioned
> to hold us in dire suspicion and contempt. But the Spirits love us so
> much.
Tell me something, are you aware of a connection between the "issii" in
your title and the goddess Isis/Aset/Auset? It strikes me as being
plausible. Relatedly, the term "nganga" which some paleros claim, is
a priestly title of the Zulu also, and for them the term translates as
"warrior of the moon", a reference to the moon goddess, and to God-the-
mother. Isis, Mamiwata, Yemoja, are all moon goddesses. There is more
on this subject that I learnt from my Zulu teacher, but I do not feel
at liberty to discuss. Suffice it to say that before there was even the
concept of a God-the-father, there was that of God-the-mother, who
was symbolized as a black woman, as we see with early depictions of
Isis. It is a symbolism which survives till today even in Europe, in
the form of the Black Madonna, which thousands of Catholics, including
the pope, continue to venerate. It is ironic indeed that the black
woman is as put down and put upon as she is. But for those who have eyes
to see, it is obvious that she is most favored by the gods. Only trouble
is, the gods do not care much for the illusions of the temporal world,
so she who is in fact most favored also seemingly "suffers" most.
> In Dahomey, under King Ghezo (who was also a direct descendant of the
> royal Agaja lineage from the Oyo Empire)sold many of the most powerful
> priests of the royal lineage's and their families into slavery
> (embarked to America). This was done out of revenge and fear, because
> these Priests were oppose to the slave trade.
>
> So many did he sale, that there were certain crowns that could not be
> made, because all the priests of that path were sold. I am deliberately
> speaking in generalities about which crowns, because we do not talk
> detail in an open forum.
>
> My point is that many think because the tradition was brutally
> suppressed here in America, that the Spirits packed their bags and
> obeyed the white mans law and left. Not so.
>
> We are always underestimated. Many listen to and follow the wrong
> crowd. Those who insult in this way, and on this level is very, very
> bad. They will surly suffer, and every door in Africa that they even
> attempt to enter will close in their face. They bring bad luck onto
> themselves and potentially their House. They truly do not understand it
> is very dangerous. These kind of offenses must be propitiated, but they
> do no understand this, and no one trains them, which is why they suffer
> and find no peace.
I hear that!
> These religions are open to any and everyone willing to recognize and
> respect the source from which their ase come. They can only reap
> blessings when they do. Thank you again.
It remains a mystery to me that, although Africa is the source of ALL
religion, the Judeo-Christian tradition included, so much discussion
about "higher spirituality" proceeds without reference at all to
Africa. And even non-Africans who enter into ATR seem to do so thinking
it's all and only about sorcery, or they do so with ulterior motives,
such as to further academic research; they do not seem to consider that
Africa is the source of a wisdom not only as profound as any that comes
out of Asia, but also that that wisdom is the fount from which the
latter flow. Yet for some reason that is to me intensely interesting,
yet a mystery to me as I said, Africa and ATR get no respect, and
again, even from the non-Africans within its midst.
> --
> Mamaissii Vivian
> West African Dahomean Vodoun
> http://www.mamiwata.com
>
Peace,
Grisso
> In article 100000@faith.decancorp.com>,
> >
> >
> > Mamaissii Vivian,
> >
> > You speak with a clarity, inciseness, power, and above all, *truth*
> that
> > this group needed to hear.
> >
> > One of the things that is destined to crumble is the sense of
> entitlement
> > that white males, especially American white males -- ex-hippie,
> liberal
> > or otherwise -- have been bred to assume. One of the things that will
> > cause it to crumble is the black woman when she steps back into her
> power,
> > and once again assumes the spiritual mantle that is her birthright.
> For the
> > power of the black woman rests in the gift of sight. They, more than
> anyone
> > else, can see through the tricky-dicky rogues, scoundrels and
> hypocrites ...
> > speakers with forked tongue who do not even know that the time is
> coming
> > when the tricks that have sustained them in the reign of white
> supremacy
> > will be of no further avail.
> >
> > Nor, as any child raised by a black mama would tell you, is the black
> > woman given to "sanctimonious" foolishness. Sanctimony, and its twin,
> > piety, are peculiarly European confusions of what constitutes behavior
> > appropriate to a state of spiritual blessedness or enlightenment. The
> > black woman, for the most part, has no such confusion. Sass, yes;
> > sanctimony no. And without prejudicing a true saintliness either. But
> repeated
> > foolishness will elicit a lashing at some point... tongue-lashing for
> sure,
> > sometimes more...
> >
> > As we would say in Trinidad, "he *look* for dat!"
> >
> > Peace,
> > Grisso
> >
> > On Sat, 11 Nov 2000, Mamaissii wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:38:36 GMT
> > > From: Mamaissii
> > > Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha
Subject: ject: Re: Arguments
> > >
> > > (E. C. Ballard) wrote:
> > >
> > > < talking
> > > to the mad hatter. It gets you nowhere.>>
> > >
> > > Because you are not a true priest of the African Spirit, and you
> have
> > > no *power*, and you cannot *do* anything, how are you in a position
> to
> > > speak as an authority on African religion?
> > >
> >
> > (( cut for bandwidth ))
> >
> >
>
> --
> Mamaissii Vivian
> West African Dahomean Vodoun
> http://www.mamiwata.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
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