Subject: Re: African values (Was: On interracial relationships, or anything)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:17:21 GMT
Alina Holgate (holgate@deakin.edu.au) wrote:
: >
: > Ask your
: > Sesotho husband what is the constitutional rule of inheritance
: > in Sesotho society in relation to women, also what is the
: > role and function, if any, of the Queen Mother. If you can
: > cite me references where these matters are discussed, I'd be
: > interested also. While you are at it, ask him also what
: > is the traditional constitutional Sesotho view on the private
: > ownership of land. Contrast the Sesotho answers with say
: > the Anglo-Saxon answers on these questions. That might take
: > the discussion forward.
: I am pleased to report that I have completed by assigned homework and
: herewith submit my findings for grading.
In the African tradition, education is a journey, guided to be
sure, of *self*-discovery, and of discovery for *self*, therefore
I do not presume to "grade" your work. I will merely say rather that
I am impressed by your obvious diligence, and I will offer the
inter-linear comments that follow.
: It should be stated that the interviewee (a 30 something Sesotho male)
: was concerned to establish the uses to which this information would be
: put before agreeing to participate in the study. He is somewhat suspicious
: of the idea of a bunch of people who were not born on the African continent
: getting together to talk shit about Africans.
He gets my applause for this healthy scepticism.
: In an effort to gain extra
: credit I took the initiative of gathering data regarding Zulu practise as
: well as Sesotho practise.
: Traditional inheritence. Sesothos usually pass land and livestock to the
: eldest boy and the household to the eldest girl however younger children
: will also be given assets. Neither the land nor the house can be sold and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: are held in perpetuity for the line of the family. When the eldest girl
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
An aspect of the "right to land" article of the "African constitution.
: marries she retains her property rights but use of the property is passed
: to younger siblings. Sesotho women inherit the property of their husband.
: Sesotho women can become land barons controlling their family property and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: their husband's property.
I don't understand how that squares with what you said earlier
about the eldest boy inheriting the land and livestock. But I
also note that women who become land barons can hardly claim
to be oppressed as women.
: The Zulu father owns all property which is
: passed to the eldest son. Women have no property rights and inherit
: nothing from either their fathers or husbands, in fact on the death of the
: husband a Zulu woman becomes the property of her brother-in-law if her
: eldest son is not old enough to take over - they may inherit some household
: goods from their mother.
This describes a patriarchal system, which I am surprised to hear,
and do not accept without doing further independent checking.
: Traditional property ownership. The Sesotho Chief allocates land to newly
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: married men. The Chief administers the land but cannot be said to own it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Again you describe an aspect of the right to land.
: If you have a lot of children your family will ultimately own a lot of land
: and if you are good land manager the Chief might decide to grant you more
: land. My Sesotho respondent claimed ignorance of the myriad complexities of
: Zulu property ownership. He stated that the King owns all the land and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: allocates it to men. Zulus must work for the King in return for their use
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: of the King's land.
This again describes an aspect of the right to land, although
the idea is confounded with the notion that the king "owns all
the land". The sense in which the king "owns" the land is
probably highly circumscribed by tradition and constitution,
and I suspect the way in which the Zulu king "owns" the land
is no different from the way in which the Sesotho king "administers"
the land.
: Traditional government. The Sesotho Chiefdom is usually passed to the eldest
: son. However there are no strict rules of succession and there is a lot of
: politicking and electioneering around the issue of who becomes Chief. Even a
: commoner can become Chief if the Sesothos decide that the family of the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: current Chief are a pack of dickheads and vote them out. The Chief functions
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is the vote one of universal suffrage, or of an eldership,
representative council?
: as an administrator and owns very little. He survives on the alms of the
: people - if necessary Sesothos could starve their Chief out of business.
Interesting concept.
: The wife and mother of the Chief have no official role but can influence the
: Chief to the extent that any wife or mother can. Women have equal voting
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: rights. A woman is unlikely to become Chief though the possibility cannot be
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: ruled out.
^^^^^^^^
That would seem to settle the matter so far as your mother-in-laws
complaints are concerned. Unless, of course, your husband has a
sexist view of the matter and you are being misled.
: The Zulu rules of succession are extremely clear with the eldest
: son inheriting the Kingship, if the eldest son dies succession goes to the
: next oldest son. The Kings wives and mother have no official role. Zulu
: princes are inclined to murder each other in order to gain power. Zulu
: princes have even been known to murder their own fathers in order to gain
: power. Shaka killed half his family. The Zulu King owns everything in his
: kingdom, including all the people who must show total obedience to the King.
Sounds patriarchal, and again I am surprised. I thought
the matrilineal rule, as in ancient Kamit, might operate
through the eldest sister of the king, ie. the eldest
son of the king's eldest sister would succeed. I am
going to check that.
: Traditional discrimination. Sesothos have no classes - if you are poor it is
: because you are lazy or wasteful. Sesothos are proud to give sanctuary to
: anyone who seeks it. The Chief will give you a modest plot of land and some
: breeding pairs of animals. If you make a success of it you will be given more
: land, foreigners have equal rights to born Sesothos - your kids could even
: grow up to become Chief one day. The main discrimination among Sesothos is
: based on age and birth-order. Sesothos don't take you particularly seriously
: is you are young or a younger child because it is the old and eldest children
: who bear the burden of the responsibilities. Quote from Sesotho respondent
: "Ah, Zulus are oppressive". Zulus have a labyrinthine class system which is
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: strictly hereditary. The lowest class is the Mfengu.
(( cuts ))
: To sum up it would seem that Sesotho society represents an incredibly humane
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: and sensible form of social organisation. Sesothos assume that all are born
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sounds like the Sesotho respondent has a rosy view of Sesothos,
and a somewhat less rosy view of Zulus. I will have to get a
Zulu respondent's opinion.
: equal and free to participate in democratic decision making. I'm particularly
: impressed by the principle that the Head of State is only remunerated according
: to the generosity of the populace and I would recommend that all governments
: immediately adopt this principle so that we can judge a politician's
: performance by how much weight they are losing. I can see a lot of differences
: between the traditional Sesotho value system and the European asili and I'm
: quite happy to concede that the Sesotho system appears to be superior to any
: European system.
May I suggest you so inform my good friend Wayne Johnson?
: Zulus society, on the other hand, seems to be incredibly hierarchical and
: bloodthirsty with discrimination at every level on the basis of which gender
: or class a person happens to be born into. Not only that, Zulus appear to
: believe that this order of things is God-given and natural. It's a society
: that no-one would want to be born into unless they were a high-class male.
: Call me genetically challenged but I fail to see any difference at all between
: the traditional Zulu system and the traditional British system. Even their
: monarchy behave in exactly the same way.
It cannot be all bad as you say, otherwise the Zulu nation
could not have endured the way it has.
: I figure that there can be no more fundamental difference between two value
: systems than that one group assumes that people are born into freedom and
: equality and another group assumes that people are born to take their place
: in a pre-existing inherited hierarchy.
: My Sesotho respondent had a lot more to say on the topic of "traditional
: African values" however I'll include that in another post. This post is quite
: long enough already.
Thank you. I think the "right to land" appears to be a
point of commonality between Sesotho and Zulu, although
differently characterized by your Sesotho respondent.
I suspect Zulu inheritance has a matrilineal component
that your Sesotho respondent is unaware of, and I'm going
to have to check that independently. I suspect also
there is a queen-mother function (not necessarily or
even usually the wife or mother of the king) that your
Sesotho respondent has not illuminated, both for the
Sesotho and the Zulu. Ask him to whom does the praise
title "the Great She-Elephant" refer.
Thanks again. At least you are not evading issues
like some of my correspondents. I admire that.
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